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Strange character on the serial monitor
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erpgc82



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Strange character on the serial monitor
PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 10:44 pm     Reply with quote

Hello friends. I am studying C through a book with several examples #use rs232.

For each example, the tests are displayed in SERIAL MONITOR. I've used:
- tera term;
- CCS serial monitor;

I never saw the information correctly, always with flaws or strange characters.

The MAX232 circuit I assembled correctly, as I do in several drawings, with a 100NF capacitor and I never had any problems with other products.

But in the study examples, I can't see.

The example pic is PIC16F628
Code:

#include <16f628a.h>
#use delay (clock = 4000000)

#fuses EC_IO, HS, NOWDT, PUT, NOBROWNOUT, NOMCLR, NOLVP

#use rs232 (baud = 19200, parity = N, xmit = pin_b2, rcv = pin_b1)

I don't believe the problem is in the hardware.
I do not believe that the problem lies in the simple code for mathematical calculations in the examples.

I believe it must be in the rs232 guidelines.

Can someone help me?
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PCM programmer



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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 11:22 pm     Reply with quote

1. Post your CCS compiler version.

2. Post a small program that shows how you get the errors.

3. The Maxim chip type is important:

Max232 uses 1 uF capacitors.

Max232A uses 100 nF capacitors.

Which Maxim chip do you have ?
Ttelmah



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 2:20 am     Reply with quote

You have:

EC_IO, HS

These are conflicting settings.
The first says you have an external oscillator feeding a clock into the
chip, the second says you have a crystal attached to the chip and the
chip has to provide the oscillator....

Only one can be right.

What external clock components do you actually have?.

The first thing always to do, is the basic 'flash an LED' test. Get your
oscillator settings right so that the LED does flash, and at the right speed,
_before_ starting to try serial.....
temtronic



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 4:26 am     Reply with quote

also.... add 'ERRORS' to the #USE RS232(....options...).
This will keep the HW UART from 'locking up' if more than 2-3 characters are sent to the PIC before your program can process them.
erpgc82



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 7:52 pm     Reply with quote

Hi "PCM programmer"
below answers and attempts ....

I posted an image link:
imagem: https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/imagens/j2dYd14
____________________________________________________

1.:
Version 5.076
____________________________________________________
2.:
Code:

#include <16f628a.h>
#use delay(clock=4000000)
#fuses HS,PUT,NOWDT,NOMCLR,NOBROWNOUT,NOMCLR,NOLVP,PROTECT
// #use rs232(baud=19200, xmit=PIN_B2,rcv=PIN_B1)                         

//Example book
#use rs232(baud=9600,parity=N,xmit=PIN_B2,rcv=PIN_B1,bits=8,stream=PORT1) //Example CCS 5.076

int8 somatorio;

void soma (int8 valor)
{
   int8 conta; 
   somatorio = somatorio + valor;
   printf("A soma de 0");
   for (conta=1; (conta<(valor+1)); conta++) printf("+%u",conta);
   printf(" eh igual a %u\r\n",somatorio);
}

void main()
{
   int8 conta; 
   somatorio = 0;
   for (conta=1; conta<20; conta++)
   {
   soma (conta);
   }
}

//This should be the result on the serial monitor:
A soma de 0+1 eh igual a 1
A soma de 0+1+2 eh igual a 3
A soma de 0+1+2+3 eh igual a 6
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4 eh igual a 10
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5 eh igual a 15
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5+6 eh igual a 21
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7 eh igual a 55

and so on, up to a <20 account.


Result with strange characters:

A soÿ 0+1 eh iguÿŠj
A soma dÿZ’*¡ igualþRA soma de þZš*¡ igualüRA soma de üZšZ¢*¡ iguýŠ‚j
A soma üŠZ’ZšZ¢Zª*á…± a 15
A ûde 0+1+2+3+ü eh igual aøA soma de 0û3+4+5+6+7 eøal a 28
A óde 0+1+2+3+ô+7+8 eh iguñ36
A soma äL%¦¥¦%ZªZ²ZN*¡ igual á( soma de ð¥¦%ZªZ²ZºZÂ&*¡ igual á( soma de ðiZ¢ZªZ²ZºZÂZŠŠ*¡ iguáÿ²j
A soma äZ’ZšZ¢ZªZ²ZZŠ‚ZŠŠZŠ’*…± a 78
A "• 0+1+2+3«ZºZÂZÊZŠ‚ZŠÿŠš*¡ iguaû
A soma de2+3+4+5+6+·10+11+12+13h igual a 1soma de 0å%ZªZ²ZºZÂZþLL)’ZŠšZŠ¢þ-JÕ…± a Ìš½µ… de 0+¢ZªZ²ZºZÂZúŠZŠ’ZŠšZŠ¢ú eh igual ý
A soma deþ¥¦%ZªZ²ZºúZŠŠZŠ’ZŠšú)²ZŠº*¡ ÿXŠªšj
A sÿZŠZ’ZšZ¢ú%ZÊZŠ‚ZŠŠú)¢ZŠªZŠ²Zú
JÕ…± aþš½µ… de þÓ¢ZªZ²ZºZò)ŠZŠ’ZŠšZê²ZŠºZŠÂZŠêÕ…± a 190A soÿ JÕ…± aþš½µ… de þÓ¢ZªZ²ZºZò)ŠZŠ’ZŠšZê²ZŠºZŠÂZŠêÕ…± a 190

____________________________________________________
3.:
MAX232N Texas
I have already tested the MAX232CPE, MAX232EPE and the same problem occurs.
Either with the 10uf electrolytic capacitor or with 100nf, the same problem occurs.
_____________________________________________________

This is 1 example, all of which I have tried throughout the book, display strange characters.
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erpgc82



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 7:56 pm     Reply with quote

Hello "Ttelmah" sorry, I had posted an example header from rs232.

The fuses are wrong, conflicting, but it is not what I used in the tests in general.

Make led blink I already did, easily!
My problem is only with serial communication.
Thank you my friend!
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erpgc82



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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 8:16 pm     Reply with quote

Hello "temtronic"
Now with ERRORS, your suggestion.
Code:
#use rs232 (baud = 19200, xmit = PIN_B2, rcv = PIN_B1, ERRORS)


Note, I'm using speed 19200, both on the serial monitor and on the compiler.

The strange error continues.
https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/imagens/tjFfDAo
https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/imagens/q0WZYY8


Note that, with each attempt to view the message, the strange characters come in a different format.

Dell notebook, Inspirion 5448, I7, with USB-SERIAL CH340 adapter, green cable. I have been using this notebook since 2015, and I always use serial communication with this CH340 adapter, in 9600 and 19200 from other equipment I work with.

Confused Sad
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PCM programmer



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Posts: 21708

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 12:42 am     Reply with quote

I installed CCS vs. 5.076. I tested your program with a 16F628A on
a PicDem2-Plus board with Teraterm and it worked OK.

Here is part of the output, copied from Teraterm:
Quote:
A soma de 0+1 eh igual a 1
A soma de 0+1+2 eh igual a 3
A soma de 0+1+2+3 eh igual a 6
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4 eh igual a 10
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5 eh igual a 15
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5+6 eh igual a 21
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7 eh igual a 28

If you are using a MAX232N, that's a MAX232 in a DIP package.
That chip requires 1 uF capacitors. Your board appears to have 100 nF
surface mount capacitors on the back side of the board, for the Max232.
That's not correct. It would be correct if you had a Max232A.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Max232 to swap with the Max232A on my
board. So I can't test to see what happens if the wrong capacitors are
used.

I don't like your fuses, as explained below:

1. You should have BROWNOUT enabled, except on low power, battery
operated projects. Without it, the PIC will start running at a lower voltage
than you expect it to. The Max232 chip might not work correctly at that
lower voltage. You might get errors.

2. HS is for 8 MHz crystals and above. The PIC datasheet says to use XT for a 4 MHz crystal.

3. There is no need for the PROTECT fuse during development. Who are
you protecting the code from ?

4. I don't know why you have NOMCLR. I normally use a 10K pull-up on
the MCLR pin, so I don't use NOMCLR, but I left it alone for your code.

Try the following fuses:
Quote:

#include <16f628a.h>
#fuses XT,NOWDT,PUT,BROWNOUT,NOLVP,NOMCLR
#use delay(clock=4M)


Add the two lines shown below in bold
Quote:

void main()
{
int8 conta;

delay_ms(100); // *** Add this line

somatorio = 0;
for (conta=1; conta<20; conta++)
{
soma (conta);
}

while(TRUE); // *** Add this line

}
Ttelmah



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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 1:22 am     Reply with quote

A couple of further comments:

Wrong characters, are very much a sign of a speed error on the comms.
Now it is impossible to see what the actual crystal is in the pictures, but
_check it_.
Look at this thread:
<http://www.ccsinfo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58692>

As you will see it turned out the crystal was not the value expected....

You say you have done the flash an LED test, but have you actually
checked this with a stopwatch?.

Now on using 'protect', if you enable this during development, it costs
chip lives. If protect is enabled, a full 'bulk' erase has to be performed
on the chip every time code is uploaded, even if only one byte needs
to change. It is much more economical on chip lives to only enable
protection once the code is actually working.....

Beware that though the 'MAX232' family is available from lots of
manufacturers, there are differences. Some manufacturers only
supply the MAX232A. Others do supply the old standard MAX232.
So a Texas Instruments 'MAX232N', is specified to run with 0.1uF
capacitors, but a Maxim MAX232N, requires 1uF capacitors. To use
0.1uF, from Maxim, requires the MAX232AN. It is not possible to see
the chip manufacturer in your pictures, but this could easily be the
source of problems....
erpgc82



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Posts: 73

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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:00 pm     Reply with quote

PCM programmer wrote:
I installed CCS vs. 5.076. I tested your program with a 16F628A on
a PicDem2-Plus board with Teraterm and it worked OK.

Here is part of the output, copied from Teraterm:
Quote:
A soma de 0+1 eh igual a 1
A soma de 0+1+2 eh igual a 3
A soma de 0+1+2+3 eh igual a 6
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4 eh igual a 10
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5 eh igual a 15
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5+6 eh igual a 21
A soma de 0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7 eh igual a 28

If you are using a MAX232N, that's a MAX232 in a DIP package.
That chip requires 1 uF capacitors. Your board appears to have 100 nF
surface mount capacitors on the back side of the board, for the Max232.
That's not correct. It would be correct if you had a Max232A.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Max232 to swap with the Max232A on my
board. So I can't test to see what happens if the wrong capacitors are
used.

I don't like your fuses, as explained below:

1. You should have BROWNOUT enabled, except on low power, battery
operated projects. Without it, the PIC will start running at a lower voltage
than you expect it to. The Max232 chip might not work correctly at that
lower voltage. You might get errors.

2. HS is for 8 MHz crystals and above. The PIC datasheet says to use XT for a 4 MHz crystal.

3. There is no need for the PROTECT fuse during development. Who are
you protecting the code from ?

4. I don't know why you have NOMCLR. I normally use a 10K pull-up on
the MCLR pin, so I don't use NOMCLR, but I left it alone for your code.

Try the following fuses:
Quote:

#include <16f628a.h>
#fuses XT,NOWDT,PUT,BROWNOUT,NOLVP,NOMCLR
#use delay(clock=4M)


Add the two lines shown below in bold
Quote:

void main()
{
int8 conta;

delay_ms(100); // *** Add this line

somatorio = 0;
for (conta=1; conta<20; conta++)
{
soma (conta);
}

while(TRUE); // *** Add this line

}


I'm using MAX232N, and for years and years, I've always used it with a 100nf capacitor. There were never any problems!

So for MAX232N the ideal is 1uf electrolytic capacitor, correct?
thanks for the tip, i will test it, out of curiosity!

Thanks for the tip from BROWNOUT, I know what it is for, but it was interesting to know about its application in projects with battery. I am learning...

I am following the book faithfully, some things really must be wrong.

The fuse PROTECT I am always training for learning, curiosity, when reading the hex comes empty. Then or I will stop using it in learning examples. I thought I could use my will.

"PCM programmer" thanks a lot for the tips!
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erpgc82



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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 3:17 pm     Reply with quote

Ttelmah wrote:
A couple of further comments:

Wrong characters, are very much a sign of a speed error on the comms.
Now it is impossible to see what the actual crystal is in the pictures, but
_check it_.
Look at this thread:
<http://www.ccsinfo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58692>

As you will see it turned out the crystal was not the value expected....

You say you have done the flash an LED test, but have you actually
checked this with a stopwatch?.

Now on using 'protect', if you enable this during development, it costs
chip lives. If protect is enabled, a full 'bulk' erase has to be performed
on the chip every time code is uploaded, even if only one byte needs
to change. It is much more economical on chip lives to only enable
protection once the code is actually working.....

Beware that though the 'MAX232' family is available from lots of
manufacturers, there are differences. Some manufacturers only
supply the MAX232A. Others do supply the old standard MAX232.
So a Texas Instruments 'MAX232N', is specified to run with 0.1uF
capacitors, but a Maxim MAX232N, requires 1uF capacitors. To use
0.1uF, from Maxim, requires the MAX232AN. It is not possible to see
the chip manufacturer in your pictures, but this could easily be the
source of problems....


Hello "Ttelmah", it seems to me that my problem is the same as that of the friend "temtronic".

I haven't tested it with a stopwatch.

thanks for reinforcing the tip about PROTECT.

My MAX232N is original Texas, purchased from Digikey.

Thank you very much for the tips, your Ttelmah and the PCM Programmer, I will test it now. Observe HS, XT and I will probably test with 10mhz crystal.

Thank you, hug!
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erpgc82



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finger on GND and 10mhz crystal
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 4:49 pm     Reply with quote

Hello "Ttelmah and PCM programmer", it seems to me that I have reached a satisfactory result to continue my studies.

1 - I switched the crystal to 10mhz and changed the fuse to HS.

2 - I used this simple line,
#use rs232 (baud = 9600, xmit = PIN_B2, rcv = PIN_B1)

3 - And it worked perfectly, but there is a problem, only the result appears clean and perfectly when I turn the button on, with the finger of my hand placed on the GND of the LM2596, GND of the circuit. To try to show the clean and perfect result, without having to put my finger on the GND, I removed the FERRITE BEADS and left it straight, I removed the 2 capacitors of 15PF from the 10mhz crystal. And none of these actions had an effect. It only works with your finger on the GND.

    I returned the 4mhz crystal, informed the fuse XT, changed it to 4mhz in the compiler, and the problem of strange characters, appears with or without my finger in the GND.

    This concludes that the biggest problem and "main problem" is the 4MHZ crystal with HS fuse, which is in the book. Even with crystal 4mhz and fuse XT, it doesn't work properly. So when moving to 10mhz and fuse HS, everything worked, except the fact that I had to put my finger on the GND.
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PCM programmer



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Re: finger on GND and 10mhz crystal
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 5:58 pm     Reply with quote

erpgc82 wrote:

the result appears clean and perfectly when I turn the button on, with the
finger of my hand placed on the GND of the LM2596, GND of the circuit.
It only works with your finger on the GND.

Did you design this board ? I looked for it on the net in Google image
search but I could not find it.

There are some things about the board layout that I do not like. Notice
the power supply traces going to the 40-pin connector in the image below.
The traces appear to be .020 inches (0.5 mm) wide. The power trace
comes down from above, in a long run, and then becomes two stubs
going to the PIC's Vdd pins. I don't like it. It's a noise creator.



The power traces ought to be at least 50 mils wide (1.25 mm), and they
should connect to other power traces in a big grid. A grid is like a street
layout in a town. All the streets connect to each other, allowing better flow.
The stubs will create noise.

The ground looks better. If you want to, you could upload the Gerber files
for the board and the schematic to your upload site. I (and others) could
look at them in a Gerber viewer and critique your board layout. We could
check the power and grounds.

Having to touch the board to make it work can mean:
1. Poor power and ground layout.
2. Lack of bypass capacitors on each chip.
3. Possibly also floating input pins on the PIC.

You can fix the last one. Add code to make all unused i/o pins on the
PIC be low-level outputs. Add these lines near the start of main() for
each unused pin:
Code:

output_low(PIN_B0);
output_low(PIN_B3);
output_low(PIN_B4);
// Etc.


Also, I wonder about your RS-232 wires on the terminal strip. I assume
the green wire is the ground. Do you guarantee this wire makes a good
connection between the board's ground (the PIC and the MAX232N) and
the USB-to-RS232 converter ? Can you check it with an Ohmmeter ?
erpgc82



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Re: finger on GND and 10mhz crystal
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2020 10:22 pm     Reply with quote

PCM programmer wrote:
erpgc82 wrote:

the result appears clean and perfectly when I turn the button on, with the
finger of my hand placed on the GND of the LM2596, GND of the circuit.
It only works with your finger on the GND.

Did you design this board ? I looked for it on the net in Google image
search but I could not find it.

There are some things about the board layout that I do not like. Notice
the power supply traces going to the 40-pin connector in the image below.
The traces appear to be .020 inches (0.5 mm) wide. The power trace
comes down from above, in a long run, and then becomes two stubs
going to the PIC's Vdd pins. I don't like it. It's a noise creator.



The power traces ought to be at least 50 mils wide (1.25 mm), and they
should connect to other power traces in a big grid. A grid is like a street
layout in a town. All the streets connect to each other, allowing better flow.
The stubs will create noise.

The ground looks better. If you want to, you could upload the Gerber files
for the board and the schematic to your upload site. I (and others) could
look at them in a Gerber viewer and critique your board layout. We could
check the power and grounds.

Having to touch the board to make it work can mean:
1. Poor power and ground layout.
2. Lack of bypass capacitors on each chip.
3. Possibly also floating input pins on the PIC.

You can fix the last one. Add code to make all unused i/o pins on the
PIC be low-level outputs. Add these lines near the start of main() for
each unused pin:
Code:

output_low(PIN_B0);
output_low(PIN_B3);
output_low(PIN_B4);
// Etc.


Also, I wonder about your RS-232 wires on the terminal strip. I assume
the green wire is the ground. Do you guarantee this wire makes a good
connection between the board's ground (the PIC and the MAX232N) and
the USB-to-RS232 converter ? Can you check it with an Ohmmeter ?



Hi PCM Programmer, yes I made this PCB. I did it quickly, in just over 2 hours, with the intuition of having it made for just study, prototype. It has a very thin GND track, on one edge of the PCB. The VDD is 0.7mm. Today, in an attempt to solve this problem, I connected a direct wire from the VDD and GND, between the PIC and the MAX232, the problem continued.

Using a Fluke 107, I consider it efficient, I found that the resistance between the GND of the PIC and the 5V regulator is 0.3ohm. Between the GND of the MAX232 and that of the 5v regulator is 0.3 / 0.4ohm. Between the GND of the RS232 connector until the GND of the 5v regulator is 0.4ohm. Between the GND of the USB male connector, even the GND of the 5v regulator is 1.7ohm. Note: This serial USB adapter, green cable, CH340 is what I use with various equipment that work and use RS232 and I never had a problem.

I have been working with drawing for many years, I have already made several large double-sided boards, but I have never had a problem, but this is the first time that I have made this track like a letter "T", I did it quickly.

I removed the C13, but this connector is for the 16F877, which I am not using yet.

The capacitors of the crystal, I removed 15PF according to the scheme of the book, and put 18PF SMD that I have here, and it did not help either.

[img]https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/imagens/-M7i0yQ[/img]
[img]https://uploaddeimagens.com.br/imagens/l174Os4[/img]


1. Low energy and earth layout.
    I have 5.022V on the PIC and MAX232 pins. The 5V track has 0.7mm, I saw no problem in making it at this thickness, just for testing. The GND, really has a spot on an edge that was quite thin, I put a thick test wire under the PCB, and the problem continued.

2. Lack of bypass capacitors on each chip.
   I am using 100NF, C6, as close as possible to the VDD input of the PIC16F628. Is this the capacitor you are referring to?

3. Possibly also floating input pins on the PIC.
    I don't have the experience you have, but I don't think so. I put in the main code main () for all the PORTB pins to be at 0V, except the RB1 and RB2 of the serial communication, and it didn't work.

The next day, I will test a USB SERIAL FTDI232, but again, I never had a problem with this CH340. But it really bothers me, to continue studying, with this flaw and having to put my finger on the heatsink / GND to work the serial communication.

The result posted here!
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Ttelmah



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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2020 1:18 am     Reply with quote

OK.
It sounds as if your original crystal is not actually resonating correctly
at the specified frequency...
Some PIC's can have an issue that some low frequency crystals overdrive
the clock input pin. On these a series resistor of perhaps 200R between
the crystal and the pin helps.
However it may just be that there is a supply issue, and this is now
showing different symptoms.

Now you are I think using a 2596 'simple switcher'?. Is this a genuine
one, or a Chinese version?. Switchers like this require very careful
PCB layout. Also the output capacitor should be a low ESR type. I
suspect your supply is actually oscillating, and touching the ground
brings it under control. A DVM won't show this in general (since they
are integrating ADC's). The clone chips in particular are documented to
have worse stability problems than the genuine versions.
Look at:

http://rohmfs.rohm.com/en/products/databook/applinote/ic/power/switching_regulator/converter_pcb_layout_appli-e.pdf

I'm wondering if your input capacitor may be poorly placed, the tracks
too narrow, or both capacitors may have too much ESR, or too little!....
The output capacitor forms a zero at 1/(2*pi*ESR*C). If the ESR is
extremely low, or too high, this can lead to instability. I suspect
too high is most likely, since the capacitor here does not look like a
low ESR type.

If you stick an oscilloscope on the supply rail, I suspect you will
see it is not stable.
What is the actual supply feeding this?. These switchers generate very
significant current pulses in the incoming feed. If this is not reasonably
regulated, there can be issues. What is the input capacitor value?.
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